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RSS > TrackIR - patented or not?

jonelsorel	#1 11/12/2008 - 22h25 Top
Class : Apprenti Posts : 18 Registered on : 21/10/2007 Off line	Excerpt from Wikipedia TrackIR page : "Patent NaturalPoint have been trying to patent optical motion tracking for view control in virtual environments since 2005, embodied in their TrackIR product, in whole and more recently in part, with 5 patent applications as of 2008. Their most recent application focuses on its use in a multiplayer virtual environment.[8] They have claimed to use 'patented math' for 6DOF motion tracking, which they call Vector, and for view-relative transformation, which they call TrueView[9] [10] but do not have such a patent." The article doesn't explicitly state NaturalPoint actually owns patents for their tracking software. And furthermore, why was alleged TrackIR code removed from version 2.1 of FreeTrack on at NP's request (if i remember well), even though the OptiTrack SDK is available on their website? http://www.naturalpoint.com/optitrack/products/sdk.html This makes no sense whatsoever to me.. but come to think of it, i'll make a piece of software for "1+1=2", and see if i can patent that! I'll save for a good lawyer starting tomorrow. It's well documented that firms with monopoly in a certain business domain have a tendency to guard their status in their specific niche, but if NP's request to remove code from FreeTrack IS a fact, then it goes directly against their own policy regarding the OptiTrack SDK, moreover since FreeTrack is not even a PRODUCT (ie. freeware)! It looks more like corporate bullying to me, but happy 21st century everyone! Cheeryo! Edited by jonelsorel on 13/12/2008 at 13h05.
jonelsorel	#2 15/12/2008 - 01h50 Top
Class : Apprenti Posts : 18 Registered on : 21/10/2007 Off line	I see none of those "in the know" here are inclined to comment on a simple open question. Funny reaction..
Quarrion	#3 15/12/2008 - 03h27 Top
Class : Beta Tester Posts : 79 Registered on : 09/10/2008 Off line	If they already had a patent, why would they be trying to get one? If you look at the OptiTrack SDK license it states: "You may not ... (vi) use SOFTWARE (ie OptiTrack SDK) to develop or create a product or solution which duplicates or reproduces the functionality of other NaturalPoint products without explicit written permission from NaturalPoint." (freeware is a product/solution btw) I think the FreeTrack guys are playing it safe and just doing what NaturalPoint wants. Personally I don't think this could be enforced because every possible use of the OptiTrack SDK effectively reproduces the functionality of NaturalPoint software. Also, who are they to tell you how you can use the hardware you purchased? The only reason for them to enforce this is to prevent compatibility with competition, so they can strengthen their monopoly, which is a possible violation of US antitrust law. The stupid part is that, in some ways, FreeTrack is doing (or could do) their work for them, so it could prove better to embrace it than to fight it. Edited by Quarrion on 15/12/2008 at 03h27.
jonelsorel	#4 15/12/2008 - 10h50 Top
Class : Apprenti Posts : 18 Registered on : 21/10/2007 Off line	How can you possibly give someone a pair of scissors and not expect them to cut stuff with them eventually ?! What you just cited is, of course, the expression of yet another cleverly (!?!) written clause or article you normally find in business or law. The only problem is that monopoly is only deemed antitrust these days when it goes against other interests in the same sector. I think the case here is that FreeTrack jumped the gun with removing so called TrackIR code - MATH, basically - before considering the absurdity of NP's claims about their software. I wonder if NP won't try to patent the wheel with TrackIR 5.. 'cause that would really kill the automotive industry! I was expecting a proper reaction from the founders of this great thingie.. Edited by jonelsorel on 15/12/2008 at 13h13.
the_target	#5 15/12/2008 - 19h41 Top
Class : Programmeur Posts : 121 Registered on : 10/07/2007 Off line	jonelsorel @ 15/12/2008 - 10h50 a dit: I think the case here is that FreeTrack jumped the gun with removing so called TrackIR code - MATH, basically - ... See "TrackIR controversy" in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeTrack
amgsport	#6 15/12/2008 - 23h42 Top
Class : Apprenti Posts : 36 Registered on : 12/03/2008 Off line	jonelsorel @ 15/12/2008 - 10h50 a dit: How can you possibly give someone a pair of scissors and not expect them to cut stuff with them eventually ?! What you just cited is, of course, the expression of yet another cleverly (!?!) written clause or article you normally find in business or law. The only problem is that monopoly is only deemed antitrust these days when it goes against other interests in the same sector. I think the case here is that FreeTrack jumped the gun with removing so called TrackIR code - MATH, basically - before considering the absurdity of NP's claims about their software. I wonder if NP won't try to patent the wheel with TrackIR 5.. 'cause that would really kill the automotive industry! I was expecting a proper reaction from the founders of this great thingie.. Your legal "logic" is seriously flawed Mr Jonelsorel - and yes - I am legally and professionally qualified to make that assessment. I think the case here - based on ample evidence - is your desire to stick your nose where it doesn't belong. Do you work for NaturalPoint??? Perhaps getting a commission to create unnecessary controversy??? Just curious.....
jonelsorel	#7 16/12/2008 - 11h11 Top
Class : Apprenti Posts : 18 Registered on : 21/10/2007 Off line	amgsport @ 15/12/2008 - 23h42 a dit: jonelsorel @ 15/12/2008 - 10h50 a dit: How can you possibly give someone a pair of scissors and not expect them to cut stuff with them eventually ?! What you just cited is, of course, the expression of yet another cleverly (!?!) written clause or article you normally find in business or law. The only problem is that monopoly is only deemed antitrust these days when it goes against other interests in the same sector. I think the case here is that FreeTrack jumped the gun with removing so called TrackIR code - MATH, basically - before considering the absurdity of NP's claims about their software. I wonder if NP won't try to patent the wheel with TrackIR 5.. 'cause that would really kill the automotive industry! I was expecting a proper reaction from the founders of this great thingie.. Your legal "logic" is seriously flawed Mr Jonelsorel - and yes - I am legally and professionally qualified to make that assessment. I think the case here - based on ample evidence - is your desire to stick your nose where it doesn't belong. Do you work for NaturalPoint??? Perhaps getting a commission to create unnecessary controversy??? Just curious..... I'm glad for your career choice, but i'd expect more than an unargumented opinion from a person calling himself a "professional", less he was trying to prove the exact opposite. Is that really how you earn your pay? Just curious... And had you read the whole thread rather than skim through, my position towards NP would be more obvious even to one such as yourself, sir. And for the thread's sake, try to stay on topic please. Edited by jonelsorel on 16/12/2008 at 11h28.
amgsport	#8 16/12/2008 - 18h12 Top
Class : Apprenti Posts : 36 Registered on : 12/03/2008 Off line	Is that your best??? I didn't expect much - but seriously - is that really your best???????? Why would you expect an argument in the first place??? Is that your modus operandi??? First rule of trial law - don't argue with idiots - they'll take you down to their level and beat you with experience..... YOU - Mr Jonelsorel - obviously have a GREAT deal of experience on that level...... jonelsorel @ 16/12/2008 - 11h11 a dit: .... And for the thread's sake, try to stay on topic please. Your thread - as with most of the drivel you've posted here - doesn't deserve that respect.....
didja	#9 16/12/2008 - 19h46 Top
Class : Webmaster (admin) Posts : 1043 Registered on : 09/07/2007 Off line Www	Hey guys, please stay cool.
amgsport	#10 16/12/2008 - 20h16 Top
Class : Apprenti Posts : 36 Registered on : 12/03/2008 Off line	didja @ 16/12/2008 - 19h46 a dit: Hey guys, please stay cool. No worries didja - I'm done. Sorry for raising the alarm. Seemed like someone was pushing buttons that didn't need pushing - but I didn't need to be pushing back either. No more from me.
didja	#11 16/12/2008 - 21h38 Top
Class : Webmaster (admin) Posts : 1043 Registered on : 09/07/2007 Off line Www	That's okay, you can chat as long as everybody stay cool.

jonelsorel

#1 11/12/2008 - 22h25

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Excerpt from Wikipedia TrackIR page :

"Patent

NaturalPoint have been trying to patent optical motion tracking for view control in virtual environments since 2005, embodied in their TrackIR product, in whole and more recently in part, with 5 patent applications as of 2008. Their most recent application focuses on its use in a multiplayer virtual environment.[8] They have claimed to use 'patented math' for 6DOF motion tracking, which they call Vector, and for view-relative transformation, which they call TrueView[9] [10] but do not have such a patent."

The article doesn't explicitly state NaturalPoint actually owns patents for their tracking software. And furthermore, why was alleged TrackIR code removed from version 2.1 of FreeTrack on at NP's request (if i remember well), even though the OptiTrack SDK is available on their website?

http://www.naturalpoint.com/optitrack/products/sdk.html

This makes no sense whatsoever to me.. but come to think of it, i'll make a piece of software for "1+1=2", and see if i can patent that! I'll save for a good lawyer starting tomorrow.

It's well documented that firms with monopoly in a certain business domain have a tendency to guard their status in their specific niche, but if NP's request to remove code from FreeTrack IS a fact, then it goes directly against their own policy regarding the OptiTrack SDK, moreover since FreeTrack is not even a PRODUCT (ie. freeware)! It looks more like corporate bullying to me, but happy 21st century everyone!

Cheeryo!

Edited by jonelsorel on 13/12/2008 at 13h05.

jonelsorel

#2 15/12/2008 - 01h50

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I see none of those "in the know" here are inclined to comment on a simple open question. Funny reaction..

Quarrion

#3 15/12/2008 - 03h27

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If they already had a patent, why would they be trying to get one?

If you look at the OptiTrack SDK license it states:

"You may not ... (vi) use SOFTWARE (ie OptiTrack SDK) to develop or create a product or solution which duplicates or reproduces the functionality of other NaturalPoint products without explicit written permission from NaturalPoint."
(freeware is a product/solution btw)

I think the FreeTrack guys are playing it safe and just doing what NaturalPoint wants. Personally I don't think this could be enforced because every possible use of the OptiTrack SDK effectively reproduces the functionality of NaturalPoint software. Also, who are they to tell you how you can use the hardware you purchased? The only reason for them to enforce this is to prevent compatibility with competition, so they can strengthen their monopoly, which is a possible violation of US antitrust law. The stupid part is that, in some ways, FreeTrack is doing (or could do) their work for them, so it could prove better to embrace it than to fight it.

Edited by Quarrion on 15/12/2008 at 03h27.

jonelsorel

#4 15/12/2008 - 10h50

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How can you possibly give someone a pair of scissors and not expect them to cut stuff with them eventually ?! What you just cited is, of course, the expression of yet another cleverly (!?!) written clause or article you normally find in business or law. The only problem is that monopoly is only deemed antitrust these days when it goes against other interests in the same sector.

I think the case here is that FreeTrack jumped the gun with removing so called TrackIR code - MATH, basically - before considering the absurdity of NP's claims about their software. I wonder if NP won't try to patent the wheel with TrackIR 5.. 'cause that would really kill the automotive industry!

I was expecting a proper reaction from the founders of this great thingie..

Edited by jonelsorel on 15/12/2008 at 13h13.

the_target

#5 15/12/2008 - 19h41

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jonelsorel @ 15/12/2008 - 10h50 a dit:

I think the case here is that FreeTrack jumped the gun with removing so called TrackIR code - MATH, basically - ...

See "TrackIR controversy" in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeTrack

amgsport

#6 15/12/2008 - 23h42

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jonelsorel @ 15/12/2008 - 10h50 a dit:
How can you possibly give someone a pair of scissors and not expect them to cut stuff with them eventually ?! What you just cited is, of course, the expression of yet another cleverly (!?!) written clause or article you normally find in business or law. The only problem is that monopoly is only deemed antitrust these days when it goes against other interests in the same sector.

I think the case here is that FreeTrack jumped the gun with removing so called TrackIR code - MATH, basically - before considering the absurdity of NP's claims about their software. I wonder if NP won't try to patent the wheel with TrackIR 5.. 'cause that would really kill the automotive industry!

I was expecting a proper reaction from the founders of this great thingie..

Your legal "logic" is seriously flawed Mr Jonelsorel - and yes - I am legally and professionally qualified to make that assessment.

I think the case here - based on ample evidence - is your desire to stick your nose where it doesn't belong. Do you work for NaturalPoint??? Perhaps getting a commission to create unnecessary controversy??? Just curious.....

jonelsorel

#7 16/12/2008 - 11h11

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amgsport @ 15/12/2008 - 23h42 a dit:
jonelsorel @ 15/12/2008 - 10h50 a dit:
How can you possibly give someone a pair of scissors and not expect them to cut stuff with them eventually ?! What you just cited is, of course, the expression of yet another cleverly (!?!) written clause or article you normally find in business or law. The only problem is that monopoly is only deemed antitrust these days when it goes against other interests in the same sector.

I think the case here is that FreeTrack jumped the gun with removing so called TrackIR code - MATH, basically - before considering the absurdity of NP's claims about their software. I wonder if NP won't try to patent the wheel with TrackIR 5.. 'cause that would really kill the automotive industry!

I was expecting a proper reaction from the founders of this great thingie..

Your legal "logic" is seriously flawed Mr Jonelsorel - and yes - I am legally and professionally qualified to make that assessment.

I think the case here - based on ample evidence - is your desire to stick your nose where it doesn't belong. Do you work for NaturalPoint??? Perhaps getting a commission to create unnecessary controversy??? Just curious.....

I'm glad for your career choice, but i'd expect more than an unargumented opinion from a person calling himself a "professional", less he was trying to prove the exact opposite. Is that really how you earn your pay? Just curious...
And had you read the whole thread rather than skim through, my position towards NP would be more obvious even to one such as yourself, sir.
And for the thread's sake, try to stay on topic please.

Edited by jonelsorel on 16/12/2008 at 11h28.

amgsport

#8 16/12/2008 - 18h12

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Is that your best??? I didn't expect much - but seriously - is that really your best???????? Why would you expect an argument in the first place??? Is that your modus operandi??? First rule of trial law - don't argue with idiots - they'll take you down to their level and beat you with experience.....

YOU - Mr Jonelsorel - obviously have a GREAT deal of experience on that level......

jonelsorel @ 16/12/2008 - 11h11 a dit:
.... And for the thread's sake, try to stay on topic please.

Your thread - as with most of the drivel you've posted here - doesn't deserve that respect.....

didja

#9 16/12/2008 - 19h46

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Hey guys, please stay cool.

amgsport

#10 16/12/2008 - 20h16

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didja @ 16/12/2008 - 19h46 a dit:
Hey guys, please stay cool.

No worries didja - I'm done. Sorry for raising the alarm. Seemed like someone was pushing buttons that didn't need pushing - but I didn't need to be pushing back either. No more from me.

didja

#11 16/12/2008 - 21h38

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That's okay, you can chat as long as everybody stay cool.

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