FreeTrack Forum

The bottom line is he took time out his day to come to this forum, sign up, and start a dialog. That in itself is head way. Him coming here, meeting the members, etc can only better Free Track. But to insult him and drive him away.......How does that help anything???????

Starting a dialogue by bashing freetrack... very well, you probably didn't see it, but do as I say in the edited part of my post, start a thread in BI forums and try to dialogue.

Do you want to know what it helps? I'll tell you, when placebo or BI are ready to dialogue, they know now that they will have to assume that freetrack as it own API/SDK and that only depends on them to make freetrack work with arma2.

That's it, if you didn't noticed until now, placebo keeps posting the same lie over and over again, that freetrack rely's only in trackir interface to work, and you know why? Because they don't want to have a DIALOGUE, do you really think that Natural point doesn't have anything to do with this?

Let me ask you something, did you know that a BI dev replied to me (in BI forums) saying that freetrack will be supported, when they think that it justifies their work implementing it? The talk is done! Now pick the petition and open a thread asking the support for freetrack, in their forums!

Jorge.PT @ 13/07/2009 - 19h59 a dit:

The bottom line is he took time out his day to come to this forum, sign up, and start a dialog. That in itself is head way. Him coming here, meeting the members, etc can only better Free Track. But to insult him and drive him away.......How does that help anything???????

Starting a dialogue by bashing freetrack... very well, you probably didn't see it, but do as I say in the edited part of my post, start a thread in BI forums and try to dialogue.

Do you want to know what it helps? I'll tell you, when placebo or BI are ready to dialogue, they know now that they will have to assume that freetrack as it own API/SDK and that only depends on them to make freetrack work with arma2.

That's it, if you didn't noticed until now, placebo keeps posting the same lie over and over again, that freetrack rely's only in trackir interface to work, and you know why? Because they don't want to have a DIALOGUE, do you really think that Natural point doesn't have anything to do with this?

Let me ask you something, did you know that a BI dev replied to me (in BI forums) saying that freetrack will be supported, when they think that it justifies their work implementing it? The talk is done! Now pick the petition and open a thread asking the support for freetrack, in their forums!

You just made no sense.......Why did he come here???? Just to say one line??? I highly doubt that. Why even waste the time to register if that was the case.

I think you need to just close your mouth. It seems you are pissing off not only BIS members but Free Track members also.

I'm not going to start littering my post with quotes - they're getting too big... but I would like to make some points if I may...
in no particular order...

Lets face it - the BIS forums are a battlefield right now - its like an ACM module on max in there between the "fanbois", the "trolls" and all the other interesting nomenclature the various sides sling at each other as they fight it out over the precise reasons why a significant proportion of paying customers are deeply disappointed by their current purchase...
Into the fray march the Freetrack users - rather polite in general compared to some of the other threads...
As other people have noted - other threads persist... Freetrack does not - except in some sigs...
There was even the insanity of one BIS Dev closing a Freetrack thread, by saying there was already an existing thread - and directing the poster to a thread ALREADY CLOSED BY "ANOTHER DEV"!!
Its fairly clear, for whatever reason(s), Placebo either decided to, or was told to close down and eliminate all mention of Freetrack on the BIS forums...
I was even reading another thread recently - in Arma1 section - a theoretical discussion about EYE tracking...
One of the posters there was afraid to even TYPE the word Freetrack in his post - in case he got banned!!
Lunacy? - Yes
Effective Moderating - Hmmm

Anyway - Placebo follows his orders, or his personal inclination, or - I suspect - both, and shuts down all mention of Freetrack... fine.... End of Story...
We congregate in this forum - and elsewhere - organise/discover the means to use our tracking systems and get down to the serious business of playing Arma2! - End of Story...

Except it's not...

First we have an "Naturalpoint employee" making provocative, childish, taunting posts... No interest in discussion or dialogue... what age IS that guy anyway??
Irrelevant - we know NP's motivation and it begins and ends with $ signs...

Now Placebo arrives - acting slightly high-handed and superior... thats a little unfortunate... it's bound to annoy someone... hmm, I see it did... Sadly, after a decade of watching him moderate forums I can tell you that his personal style can often be... how should I put it??? Inflammatory?? - No - too strong... how about "less than entirely tactful" - that'll do...
However, he's by no means a taunting or provocative poster like a certain NP person.
That was a pity..., he's not a kid, and he IS - in effect - the Official liason between whatever passes for our loose collective, and BIS themselves..
What's HIS motivation I wonder??? Is he here purely personally, as a favour to hotshot (who, by the way - lest we forget -  has been tirelessly PM'ing and working in the background to engender dialog, while we - myself included - sit on our butts and whine occasionally)?
Somehow I don't think so...
In his official capacity as a BIS employee then?? - Maybe...  Maybe both I think...
If that's the case then BIS are clearly interested, if not concerned, with what we're up to - and rightly so... as I outlined before, the current solution for all non-TIR4/5 users is exposure to the means of pirating their game!
Lets look at Ferujo's Poll - you can bet Placebo and/or BIS have...

220+ signatures already!! who's betting we can reach a thousand???
A quick look at the BIS Forum stats reveals they have 57,000+ members (unsurprising - the forum's been running a decade), however - they have only 7,394 active members listed... 1000 signatures is a seventh of their active userbase!
Any company in that situation would be crazy not to be concerned... BIS aren't crazy, therefore they appear here - making an offer...

It's unfortunate that their offer essentially consisted of the clearly impossible "Take over a Forum over which you as a group (arma2 freetrack users) have no control, moderate it according to BIS rules and I'll let you have - yet another - poll on the BIS forums"...

Actually... that's OK.
It's OK because it actually IS an offer...
If you've ever seriously been involved with business or commercial or even - in my case - academic negotiations at a formal level you'd be DELIGHTED!

Thats because an offer means that we both have something the other wants!!

Thats how and why deals get made!

We want to use freetrack in Arma 2
BIS want us to not use or indirectly promote the use of tracking fixes that potentially involve the further spreading of security removal cracks

Theres one clear, simple and obvious solution...

But it takes dialogue to achieve that... and negotiators who can secure the best deal for their team with the least ruffled feathers all round...

hotshot... placebo...   ???


B

Hey guys go here

Placebo did this for us. Poll only. So vote Yes and lets fill that number up HIGH!!!
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=79821

Just registered and added my 'yes' vote.  What i cant figure is the people who voted 'no' -  what difference does it make to them if support is in there.

joe pineapples @ 13/07/2009 - 21h13 a dit:

Just registered and added my 'yes' vote.  What i cant figure is the people who voted 'no' -  what difference does it make to them if support is in there.

People who don't understand what they are polling lol. I bet the No's don't even know what they voting on.

17 Yes already in only like 10 mins

Well Done Hotshot! (Have you ever considered a career as a Professional Facilitator?? )

... and thank you Placebo for an opportunity to bring this situation back to the BIS forums where it belongs...


B

Bushlurker @ 13/07/2009 - 21h18 a dit:

Well Done Hotshot! (Have you ever considered a career as a Professional Facilitator?? )

... and thank you Placebo for an opportunity to bring this situation back to the BIS forums where it belongs...


B

LMAO Thanks bro. Dude, like I told Placebo. I just want ArmA 2 BAD!!!!!!!!!!!! But I won't buy it unless I can fully enjoy it.

This no way says we will get support for Free Track but atleast it is a move in the right direction.

This no way says we will get support for Free Track but atleast it is a move in the right direction

Of course not - it's merely an opening move - A Queens Gambit, in fact.....  

But I won't buy it unless I can fully enjoy it.

I've already bought a German copy - and I'm quite enjoying the novelty of learning a few words of German... but the novelty is wearing thin... I'll be buying a UK copy just shortly...
... because - either way - Freetrack WILL be made to work on an ongoing basis... I just fervently hope we can reach some compromise that allows me to use it fully and without being made to feel that I'm somehow bad, or morally reprehensible for doing so...

B

Just 2 things:

To all who made this: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=79821 happen, THANKS!

All others: VOTE!

hotshot232 @ 13/07/2009 - 20h04 a dit:

You just made no sense.......Why did he come here???? Just to say one line??? I highly doubt that. Why even waste the time to register if that was the case.

I think you need to just close your mouth. It seems you are pissing off not only BIS members but Free Track members also.

Yes, to say that and also to say this:

I'm sorry but if you think that it's unacceptable for me to criticise the sharing of warez cracks and to expect that the Freetrack devs would have respect for developers to stamp down on such actions then it's clear that we can never reach a common ground.

Now let's see, after what happened here, a new poll was created in BI forums by Placebo (who would have guessed). Do you want anything better then that?

Maybe something as touched his consciousness... or was it butterfly effect + theory of chaos?

I've lost too much time waving the freetrack flag, and being as polite as I could in BI forums, just to have Placebo come here and say the same bullshit he always did. I'm sorry but my patience is not infinity.

Hate me as much as you want, but there is no need to be so dramatic... the world doesn't end today.

@Bushlurker: I'm in pedagogic commission myself, and the few times I've seen things get done, was when there was a clear provocation by one of the parts, believe me it works

What i cant figure is the people who voted 'no' -  what difference does it make to them if support is in there

Well I can think of at least one "interested third party" who would probably like to see, and are no doubt busy organising, large numbers of NO voters...

The subject is of extreme interest to Freetrack (and TrackIR 1,2 & 3) Users - all who currently use the forums and are aware of the poll will vote YES

The subject is a matter ot total indifference to anybody who doesnt use head-tracking - they won't vote at all

The subject is - or should be - a matter of total indifference to all TrackIR Users - their head tracking is already working - they shouldn't vote at all...

Of course they will - in droves

Then there is the troll element...

NaturalPoint_Vincent @ 30/06/2009 - 08h03 a dit:

... the aforementioned "third party" who, if this is representitive of their level of Business Ethic - and I think it is - will not hesitate to use any means to ensure significant numbers of NO votes...

However....

The poll is great! - the poll is a the first footprint on the beach at LZ BISLand, it's Solidarnosc t-shirts worn openly in Warsaw in'81, its Victor Troska against The Bear.. and aren't you just grooving on the irony that BIS are now The Bear ??

B

Jorge just to make a point to you. This was one of the last PM's I have received from Placebo.

hotshot a dit:

I wonder why people would vote no??? I bet you they don't even know what they are voting on lol OR fanboys of NP.So funny because support of free track affects no user BUT NP guys lol.

placebo a dit:

I have no idea, I voted yes if it helps  

This latest splat regarding Placebo just illustrates my point that we are not a hive mind. Some people are very angry, others try to be very diplomatic. This is to be expected, there is no required standard for us to act as professionals. We are not incorporated in any way. We answer to no one. We're simply a group of people with a common interest. To hold us all up to some kind of corporate standard and accuse the entire FreeTrack community of being unprofessional is just another excuse to snub a diverse segment of their very own fan base.

It's up to BIS and BIS alone to keep head tracking out of the hands of a wannabe monopoly and free as it always should have been, or else this poor situation will simply continue to no end.

Bushlurker @ 13/07/2009 - 23h09 a dit:

The poll is great! - the poll is a the first footprint on the beach at LZ BISLand, it's Solidarnosc t-shirts worn openly in Warsaw in'81, its Victor Troska against The Bear.. and aren't you just grooving on the irony that BIS are now The Bear ??

B

That crossed my mind, not polish with a OPF character, but the Czech one, with Prague Spring and Václav Havel