FreeTrack Forum

Hi. First, I sucessfuly build Ps3 eye reflective setup which works perfectly and I want to thank you all on that.

If you opened up Microsoft sidewinder Force feedback Pro joystick ( first release gameport version ) you won't see any pots inside. Actualy you will see two leds on joystick handle bottom and one led which is coming from throttle control. On the bottom of the stick you'll see a IR camera looking at these led's and interpreting their positioning as joystick movements - instead of using pots for this.
Microsoft dropped this solution in second joystick series to reduce cost, pitty, as a first series of joystick could last forever unless gimbal or other mechanical stuff is broken.

My idea is that custom cocpit makers, and others can sucessfuly use camera and freetrack to reasamble a virtual joystick ...well actualy a real joystick but freetrack is reading it's position instead of potentiometer - just like a one point setup.

Than - to extend this suggestion - if freetrack can track more points separately ( using more than one cordinate system) based on only some part of camera viewing than some builders can make endless axis builds limited only to camera viewing angle.
- To retain simplicity this should be all done on reflective setup...becouse, no wires on joystick gimbals,throttle and other stuff, and camera would be set in a closed box anyway, so no interruption of the outside light.

Imagine it like this...you make a throttle quadrant with some rotary switches, flaps, trimmers etc. Now on the other side of controls ( instead of 15 potentiometers and a compicaded PCB and usb interface ) you put only reflective stripe ...nicely cut and glued to all that controls which are easy to make. And only one camera to look at them - Freetrack "should "know how to interpret every reflective dot on each position in front of camera...you assign it with some axis...or slider, or rotary controller and voila ...you have build a complete cocpit if you like ...without a single wire inside...just a camera and a circle of IR leds on camera :-)


OK why is this superior to other solutions you might ask :

- potentiometers are limited by lifecycle - they become "spikey" and track position poor after time
- price - PS3 camera and IR leds to mount on it equals the cost of only 4 quality potentiometers...not to mention that quality pot's you won't find in you nearest shop which might double the cost.
- positioning accuracy....even if the pot's are perfect and you have some 12bit resolution controler to read 4096 positions out of your potentiometar you still have some kind of mechanical device which convert your real movement into pot position and it's complicated to build and will possibly have some "play" and wear after time.
- simplicity....how you might ask. No wires, no voltake, kilo ohms to think about.
By creating this freetrack addon you will open doors to many cocpit and joystick builders who are very good at mechanics but poor at electronics...becouse this sistem is easier to build and doesn't have any electronic tinkering.
- for DIY builders it's much simplified mechanics.
- It's all wear free - will last a lifetime - only thing you might need to replace is your camera and few IR leds...

CONS to this is only one I can think of : you will probably kill the marked of custom electronic USB devices for DIY cocpit builders.

THE NEED FOR THIS SOLUTION :
Huh. I don't need to tell you how bad joystick market is these days. The best thing around is still old MSFF2 :-( . Paccus Hawk is the only hope but at what price ?!. High price solutions ain't that good as pricey as they will still wear out.

If you stop and think about it you might think of many many other benefits of this system too which I forgot to mention. Please tell me what you think and let's hope Freetrack makers would see this as a good solution - even If they make a non free version of software it would still be and overkill :-)

kind regards from Croatia

Hi,

these are really nice ideas.
You are right: Find a good joystick nowadays isn't that easy.
After used up several Logitechs and Saiteks I finished with a homemade hall-sensor joystick, that gives me full satisfaction since two years. No more spikey pots and every-week calibration.
Commercial joysticks could more than double their lifetime with just changing these cheap dismissive pots for industrial pots.
And even priced systems like the G940 fight with software bugs.  This is incomprehensible.

The idea of using Freetrack as a kind of optical Input device is quit good.
I only see two disadvantages. The size of a console with multiple controls and the resolution. Most webcams sensors gives 640x480 which isn't really much for X-,Y-axis of a joystick.

I don't think resolution is a problem. Most stick come in 8 bit resolution - 255 points, some sticks even use only half of those. Some better sticks use 10 bit - 1024 positions resolution, and custom controlers use 12 bit - 4096 positions.

The way I see it - I made a custom pedals with Logiteck attack 3 joystick for electronics - it support only 8 bit - 255 positions which is quite enough if you get a smooth output. Thing is that most pots get jumpy and while you move your stick it is not reading full increments - for examle instead for reading 1,2,3,4,... you get a reading 1,3,7,12,28 etc. You mounted a hall effect ...go to see calibration data and try to move it as smooth as you can - you will see how many positions you jump over - not becouse jour hall effect is jumpy, but becouse you can't move your hand that slow and smooth...If you have 1024 positions than you would need to make angle movement of 0.01 degree increments to get usage of every position - impossible by human hand.

Freetrack on the other hand can't use more than camera resolution BUT - depending on dot size freetrack finds a center point of your Led or reflective sensor - sensor dot will be more than a few pixels around...and than interpolate. I think this is fine enough. The only problem is reading speed. At least 50 FPS camera is a must if you don't want delay on controls.... PS3 eye is a must I would say.

SIZE : yes, I think so, it's not suitable to make it only for a table joystick. It's better suited for a complete cocpit or rudder + joystick mounted on the floor base.